Solutions to Apparent Mac-Related Bugs - Thread 1

MP3 players Sansa Clip | Clip+
1

OK, I’m using this Sansa Clip Plus on a Mac.  I have a huge library of podcasts, some of which I’ve downloaded from listservers and some of which I’ve obtained via iTunes (typically business and old time radio; some sports podcasts).  My problem?  The thing won’t play them.

The symptom is that I get a rapid scrolling through my files, but when I try to play one, it justs starts scrolling again.  Out of 23 podcasts I’ve loaded, only 3 actually will play on the device.  Most of the files end up having an underscore mark at the beginning of the filename (such as _203 Weekly …) when seen in the Sansa Clip, though not when viewed on the Mac.

The new iPod shuffle isn’t a satisfactory answer, but so far neither is this thing.  I miss my second gen iPod shuffle!  Too bad its lifespan is so short.

Any help here? 

Message Edited by MaxBuck on 08-03-2010 12:41 PM

2

Sansa does not support .aac format. If the podcast just scrolls through then the format might not be supported. Check this link

Message Edited by Jamieson on 08-02-2010 05:20 PM

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  Most of the files end up having an underscore mark at the beginning of the filename (such as _203 Weekly …) when seen in the Sansa Clip, though not when viewed on the Mac.

 

use the dot_clean command to get rid of that.

4

What exactly is the “dot clean” command?

5

MaxBuck wrote:

OK, I’m using this Sansa Clip Plus on a Mac.  I have a huge library of podcasts, some of which I’ve downloaded from listservers and some of which I’ve obtained via iTunes (typically business and old time radio; some sports podcasts).  My problem?  The thing won’t play them.

 

The symptom is that I get a rapid scrolling through my files, but when I try to play one, it justs starts scrolling again.  Out of 23 podcasts I’ve loaded, only 3 actually will play on the device.  Most of the files end up having an underscore mark at the beginning of the filename (such as _203 Weekly …) when seen in the Sansa Clip, though not when viewed on the Mac.

 

You didn’t benefit from the information on this issue in this thread? The cause plus the fix was given.

6

MaxBuck wrote:

OK, I’m using this Sansa Clip Plus on a Mac.

 

The symptom is that I get a rapid scrolling through my files, but when I try to play one, it justs starts scrolling again.  Out of 23 podcasts I’ve loaded, only 3 actually will play on the device.  Most of the files end up having an underscore mark at the beginning of the filename (such as _203 Weekly …) when seen in the Sansa Clip, though not when viewed on the Mac.

 

You didn’t benefit from the information on this issue in this thread? The cause plus the fix was given. I know you read it because you responded to it. Just because you couldn’t make the complicated (terminal) procedure work, did that somehow prohibit you from using the 

 

???

7

I understand you’re a fan of this device, but actual help would be appreciated in place of juvenile put-downs.  I’m reluctant to just load new software onto my computer absent a clear need to do so - maybe this is one of those cases.  

Note the Sansa user manual says the following:

Drag and Drop (Mac) 

Follow these steps to drag-and-drop music to your Sansa® Clip+ MP3 player: 

  1. Connect your Sansa® Clip+ MP3 player to your Mac computer. 

  2. Double-click on the removable disk named SANSA CLIPP that appears on your 

desktop. 

  1. Double-click on the Music folder. 

  2. Drag and drop music files from your computer to the player’s Music folder. 

These directions don’t really work at all.  If one must use some third-party solution like this kopymac, you don’t have a compatible device and shouldn’t advertise it as such.

By the way, I’ve copied files back and forth between OSX and Vista numerous times, including mp3s, photos and videos from an HD camera.  The Sansa Clip is the first device I’ve had this problem where OSX file naming screwed up the device’s ability to use them.  I can even play mp3s from my mac in my car (Windows CE) off a flash drive and on my BlackBerry - no problem. 

Once the files are copied properly, the device does work well, so far.  Battery life is much shorter than the iPod shuffle ver2, but that’s to be expected with the spiffy color screen. 

Message Edited by MaxBuck on 08-03-2010 03:10 AM

Message Edited by MaxBuck on 08-03-2010 03:11 AM

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The answer posted in the other thread linked by Tapeworm was incorrect, because the poster (drlucky) didn’t include a space just before the word DSDontWriteNetworkStores, which is why the command didn’t work for you.

If you type into a Terminal window:

defaults write com.apple.desktopservices DSDontWriteNetworkStores true

that will prevent the creation of the .DS_Store file.

But the dot_clean command is provided by Apple, and built into OSX 10.5 (Leopard) and 10.6 (Snow Leopard) - did you not try that?

Before you start blaming Sansa for Mac problems, you should understand that OSX Finder has a very annoying habit of storing additional file information in files beginning with ._  (Google AppleDouble for more details).

Finder doesn’t show them of course, but this is a real nuisance for anyone trying to use a Mac with other systems: PCs, Unix, network shares, MP3 players, anything.

It would be nice if Sansa firmware could optionally ignore these Mac droppings; but the real solution would be for Apple to fix OSX so that Finder won’t create resource files on non-HFS filesystems.

For now, the dot_clean command is the Apple-supported workaround, but if you’re not comfortable with the Terminal, then you’ll have to download and use some additional software. Sorry.

If you don’t like it, compain to Steve Jobs … who will try to sell you an iPod.

Message Edited by njd on 08-03-2010 01:49 PM

Message Edited by njd on 08-03-2010 02:14 PM

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@njd wrote:

The answer posted in the other thread was incorrect, because the poster (drlucky) didn’t include a space just before the word DSDontWriteNetworkStores, which is why the command didn’t work for you.

 

If you type into a Terminal window:

 

defaults write com.apple.desktopservices DSDontWriteNetworkStores true

 

that will prevent the creation of the .DS_Store file.

 

But the dot_clean command is provided by Apple, and built into OSX 10.5 (Leopard) and 10.6 (Snow Leopard) - did you not try that?

 

Before you start blaming Sansa for Mac problems, you should understand that OSX Finder has a very annoying habit of storing additional file information in files beginning with ._  (Google AppleDouble for more details).

Finder doesn’t show them of course, but this is a real nuisance for anyone trying to use a Mac with other systems: PCs, Unix, network shares, MP3 players, anything.

 

It would be nice if Sansa firmware could optionally ignore these Mac droppings; but the real solution would be for Apple to fix OSX so that Finder won’t create resource files on non-HFS filesystems.

 

For now, the dot_clean command is the Apple-supported workaround, but if you’re not comfortable with the Terminal, then you’ll have to download and use some additional software. Sorry.

 

If you don’t like it, compain to Steve Jobs … who will try to sell you an iPod.

Message Edited by njd on 08-03-2010 01:49 PM

First, I’ve been working across the OSX - Vista platform interface for over a year.  This device is the ONLY device and it contains the ONLY software with which I have had any issues with the “additional file information.”  I’ve been able to drag-and-drop mp3s over to my BlackBerry which plays them without incident, and to a flash drive that I can play without incident on my Windows CE powered car stereo.  I’ve migrated numerous other program files back and forth between Vista and OSX without having any problems with them.  So characterizing this as a “Mac problem” alone lets Sandisk off the hook for failing to solve a problem that others have solved easily.

Second, the SansaClip user manual directs me to do something that doesn’t work - namely, drag-and-drop files to the device.  The failure of Sandisk to put accurate and workable instructions into its user manual is certainly not a “Mac problem.”

Third, were it not for the stupid decision by Apple to remove its controls from the device and place them onto a proprietary headphone set on its Gen 3 iPod Shuffle, I wouldn’t have bought this SansaClip to begin with.  It was advertised as being Mac compatible, and frankly it doesn’t do very well at being compatible.  (How I wish Apple still sold the Gen 2 Shuffle!)

Having to resort to third-party software (kopymac) to get it to work is not what I thought I was getting into, although that software appears to work OK.  I hope this interchange of messages on the board is helpful to others who find themselves with similar frustrations to mine.

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The latest firmware for the Clip seemingly deals with this issue. Not sure why the Clip+ doesn’t. 

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I am disappointed, for the first time, with this forum. It is no wonder Mac fans hate Windows to some degree. I believe the Windows people started all the anger. Going on the attack to a Mac user here, is a first for me to witness.

I tried to save a little money and purchased the Clip+ instead of the iPod Nano, at three times the price. My bad. While I love Sansa for my USB stick, the Clip+ was a mistake of $50 on my part. It is sitting in a drawer gathering dust. The unit was brand new to Best Buy when I bought it. They did not have a working model on display. The screen is so small, I can barely read it.

I will not purchase another music player from Sansa, especially when people on this forum give Mac users grief.

I will save up for an iPod Nano, which now has an FM Radio. 

Message Edited by wplj42 on 08-04-2010 10:39 AM

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@miikerman wrote:

Excuse me, but:

 

The reason some Apple customers may feel like they are on the defensive is that the problems noted in this thread, being blamed on SanDisk and the Clip, are that of Apple’s making in adding extraneous files with a file transfer–Apple, not SanDisk, is the “culprit.”    Apparently, this issue is fairly well-known and universal, as specific software has been created to deal with it (and will deal with it here, seemingly with no more hassle than using iTunes).  And yet postings in the thread blame SanDisk.  Sorry but, not fair, nor cool. 

 

If anything can be “blamed” on SanDisk, it’s not having gone a step further to handle the issues created by Apple (if that’s possible with the Clips and their memory limitations–I don’t know)–while that would be great, can SanDisk really be blamed, at least more than Apple, for not having done so? (and, in fact, it may have, with an earlier firmware revision for the Clip (see the comment above)); and not being express about the issue in written material (but I’m not a Mac user, and so don’t know if it’s a universal issue with Macs).

 

Sorry you didn’t like your Clip+.  I’m not sure why you didn’t return it to the store and use your money for another player.  And you’re right, the screen is small, given the size of the device.  But isn’t it nice to actually have a screen, on something this small, and as an option to all the other small, screenless players out there (including the Shuffles)?

 

I just loaded over 23GB of music onto my Clip+ (an 8GB player, plus new 16GB microSD card), and am just amazed at that fact and the fact that I now have over 250 albums of richly-encoded music on my player.  And, if I want to, I can swap the microSD card out for another 150+ albums.  All in the size of a matchbox or so.  Just amazing to me.

 

Again, sorry if you felt like you were put on the defensive.  But I think some Clip+ users perhaps felt like they were put on the defensive first, unfairly so. 

 

Now, get that Clip+ out of the drawer and start using it.   ;)   (Or if you don’t want it, feel free to send it to me–I’m more than happy to reimburse the postage.    ;)   )

Excuse me too, but if you advertise a device as being “Mac compatible,” you can’t have it displaying the Mac-related behaviors that the Clip+ does when you try to do things the way the User Manual says they should be done.  Sandisk is to blame for this stuff, and Sandisk alone.

Blaming this all on Apple is inappropriate and a cop-out.  That, plus the condescending (not to mention inaccurate) post offered by a Clip+ fan to me above?  Not a recipe for good relations. 

The Clip+ has a lot of excellent points, and I’m not trying to dump on it as a product.  But it has some flaws that can be frustrating for a Mac user like me. 

17

Milkerman … Because of many other issues, I will be returning to the PC. I will still look for another player besides the Sansa. Funny, postage has gone up. it will set you back about $60 shipping and handling. Packaging costs have really gone through the roof. If you are interested, make me a fair offer. To give it away would have to be someone deserving.

My beef is with the attitudes here. This has always been a pleasant and helpful forum. I get sick and tired of others who insist on mistreating Mac users. One would assume you Sansa Guru folks have some association with Sansa. If that is the case, it is a sad representation of the company.

This is not the first time I have stumbled across something that is supposed to work with the Mac, but does so at a substandard level. At least Apple makes the claim that iTunes is necessary to use their iPods. Sansa should make the claim that their products work best with Windows Media Player. The Zune probably can’t work with a Mac. Sansa only makes the claim that the player needs to be used in the MSC Mode.

Sansa should have tested their products with Macs before making any compatibility statements. If they did, and are satisfied with the results, then I for sure will look elsewhere. As I mentioned in another thread, the instructions for installing the firmware update were not complete for the Mac or Linux user. Yes, the Clip+ works with Linux, but must be in MSC Mode as well. Linux works on a Mac. Beware of free virtualization products. They have issues as bad as Sansa!

Do LOVE my Cruzer though!!!

18

wplj42 wrote:

My beef is with the attitudes here. This has always been a pleasant and helpful forum. I get sick and tired of others who insist on mistreating Mac users.

 

Oh c’mon. You Mac guys take ribbing way too seriously. We love iSheep around here. They’re so cute & wooly. :smileyvery-happy:

I’m sure the same ‘mistreatment’ (as you call it) goes on toward Windows users in the iPod forums.

 

One would assume you Sansa Guru folks have some association with Sansa. If that is the case, it is a sad representation of the company.

 

Then one would assume incorrectly.

 

This is not the first time I have stumbled across something that is supposed to work with the Mac, but does so at a substandard level.

 

Then you should realize that the rest of the world operates outside the Apple core and it’s up to you (Mac users, the minority) to adapt, not the other way around. There are thousands, maybe more Mac users that are perfectly happy and satisfied with their Sansa alternatives to the ‘pod’ family. One member here even wrote an entire web page on the subject of using mp3 players with a Mac just to help others with the ‘differences’ they will encounter. It is easily found with Google, but here’s the direct link.

 

And as a matter of fact, my daughter uses a Mac. I gave her my Fuze when she accidentally dropped her iPod into an aquarium and we could not revive it by storing it in a sealed bag of white rice for a week or so. She’s had it for over a year now and has no problems with the ‘compatibility’.

 

So, quit 'yer whinin! :stuck_out_tongue:

 

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Miikerman wrote: … even with the Kopymac software, the Clips aren’t anymore complicated than iPods with iTunes …

Not really true; I had no problem with the iPod Shuffle in finding and editing (adding or deleting) podcast files using any of the following tools: iTunes, Windows Explorer (Vista), or Finder (Mac). The reason is that its file structure was absolutely flat: no folders could be implemented.  The file structure on the SansaClip is very arcane, not visible at the PC level, and I am continually finding extraneous files on the thing that I thought I had deleted. And I never know where files will turn up on the device after I’ve dragged them into the device.  I’ll admit many people likely find the folder approach to be useful, so I’m not suggesting this approach is a mistake by Sandisk.

I’m glad so many people seem to have so much loyalty for the Clip+. Based on what I’ve experienced, I will use it only so long as there is nothing else that offers the key features I need:

  1. Small size with clip to attach to clothing
  2. Compatibility with off-the-shelf headphones
  3. Ability to play several formats of podcasts 

As soon as I can find another device that has these features, I plan to pitch this buggy little thing.  Like I’ve said, I wish Apple hadn’t redesigned the Shuffle, as its second generation model was outstanding.  But buying a used one is not in the cards, as they seem to have a max lifespan of about 5 years.

23

Miikerman wrote: 

If the earlier generation Shuffle met your needs, by all means get another.  As I wrote earlier, I found new (not just used) ones easily with a quick search engine search. 

As a help to anyone reading this board, if you’re thinking about a Gen 2 iPod shuffle, I recommend you don’t - even if it’s “new.”  The battery has a very finite life, usually 3-5 years, and the Gen 2 iPod hasn’t been made for a couple of years.  So a “new” Gen 2 shuffle is unlikely to be a good deal.  

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No one is to blame on this issue. The appledouble is generated by Mac as a fork for files. Meaning it contains extra information about the file that the MAC OS needed. It is set to create this on default and a behaviour that not unless MAC feels that it will not conflict on other MAC things if disabled. MP3 player is set to read any files when the extension name is .mp3 or .wma regardless of the information contained. It will just show and skip the fault file if not a valid audio file. If sansa is to make a filter that will ignore the ._ files, then you are also in danger of ignoring the valid files (what if I want my other files named as ._planet of the apes.mp3). This is a total revamp of how the player will handle filenaming on the player itself.

Note… Even a non-sansa windows based player compatible with mac will show the ._ file due to the EXTENSION NAME WHICH IS MP3 OR WMA.

My suggestion is, if you don’t want to have troubles on wasting time removing those files from the sansa, you have several options:

1.Search for the applescript app also called dot_clean. This is not the terminal command version. You’ll just click the app while the sansa window is open and it will ask you if you want to proceed.

  1. Buy a screenless clueless ipod player having the same size.

  2. Use a windows PC.

Never blame either of the tow company… They never did what you want in the first place for a reason. A company like Apple and SanDisk will not just give in to a request if they know it will lessen the stability of the device. It needs further research for them to come up with having stability and your requested fix or feature/function.

PS to all:

We are here to help not blame anyone in such scenarios that we feel lacks one and the other. Forums sites should be this way. There’s no point in arguing if it will not lead us to a valid or fastest solution. :slight_smile:

Message Edited by hckrs2k3 on 08-09-2010 11:43 AM

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There are plenty of ways to get around this. VirtualBox is sometimes a little buggy, at least with the Mac version, but it is free. Ubuntu is not as user friendly as Mac OS or Windows, but it too is free. Using the latest version of VirtualBox and an old CD of Ubuntu 8.10, I was able to transfer files from my iTunes backup DVD to my Clip+ without any errors.

The Mac has been leaving little DOS viewable “droppings” forever. I had issues with 3.5 floppies between Mac OS 9, and Windows. Apple ain’t gonna fix that, since it isn’t really broken.

Wanting a player with a clip makes perfect sense to me, but does limit things. I have never used my Clip+, and not actually used the clip.

If you have an Intel Mac with OS X 10.5+, then you can use a copy of Windows in many ways: BootCamp, VirtualBox, Parallels, or VMWare Fusion. Looked at the entire thread and did not see what Mac you have. Also, Milkerman, sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you of being rude. Truth is, it was Tapeworm. If you aren’t going to have any patience with people, don’t reply to posts.

Us Mac users are rather accustomed to having things just work. Also, there is a growing number of newbies to the Mac. This is my second Mac, with many a PC in between my 2000 iMac and this 2007 iMac. I am no expert, to this day. The folks on many of the Apple forums are worse than this forum could ever be. Sure, ask for Sansa help on a Mac forum. They will tell you to pitch the Sansa and get an iPod.

Milkerman, I should have spent a little extra, and got the Slot Radio Player. When the Clip+ came along with Slot Radio capability, I got one. Sadly, I am still waiting for Slot Radio to impress me. The Slot Radio screen is something I could probably see. For the record, the FM radio is not very good with the Clip+. I have a long headphone cord too.

For an audio only device, the Clip+ is a good value. The iPod Nano costs too much and does too much for me. And it doesn’t even have a clip!

29

wplj42 wrote:

 

Also, Milkerman, sorry if it sounded like I was accusing you of being rude. Truth is, it was Tapeworm. If you aren’t going to have any patience with people, don’t reply to posts.

 

Whoa there, pardner!

It’s obvious there’s a whole lot o’ misunderstandin’ goin on here. Both you and MaxBuck (the OP) took my reply to him wayyyy wrong. It was not meant as a “juvenille put-down” as he said, nor was I expressing “a lack of patience” or “going on the attack to a Mac user”. Far from it.

I was merely asking if he ( MaxBuck ) did not find the information in the other (linked to) post useful? The cause of what he was experiencing was explained by someone who is well familiar with both Macs and Sansa players (drlucky) and 2 alternative methods for resolving the problem were given by him as well. An easy one (Kopymac) and a more technical, or complicated one (Terminal). Even drlucky said himself in that thread “kopymac is probably the easiest way but if you are comfortable with terminal you can try this as well.” It’s not my fault if drlucky forgot to type in a space, rendering his advice unusable (pointed out by njd ).

I was simply asking what was wrong with using the simple method of solving the problem. That same issue has been discussed here many times before and kopymac seems to be an apporpriate (and working) solution, so why not use it? That’s all I was saying. 

Geesh! Some people need to quit reading things that don’t exist into what others say!

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I could not get copymac to work. Not sure why, but the instructions are very limited. I am not at all comfortable with Terminal in Mac OS X or Linux. Nor, would I be comfortable with Apple Script. That isn’t to imply, it won’t work. I don’t know why Mac OS does what it does, but as I mentioned, it did so 10 years ago, in my experience.

Milkerman, I am a radio guy. It doesn’t offend me that I cannot have access to the Slot Radio files, although it would be nice. I understand that is part of how they can sell 500 or 1,000 songs for such a low price. To the best of my knowledge, it is impossible to get a list of the songs, which is silly. I wouldn’t purchase a CD without knowing what is on it.

Tapeworm … The unspoken word is always subject to misinterpretation. While I may have mistaken your comments, the EASY button, put the whole thing over the top. I found it offensive, while you may have figured it was being *cute*.

As for the OP, there are solutions. I have never seen a podcast that wasn’t in MP3 format. Yes, the Clip+ is not going to handle AAC files. iTunes can very simply convert AAC files to MP3. There are other programs that will convert other (non-iTunes) files. Some free, some not. There is also a plug-in for iTunes and QuickTime to play OGG files. I am not sure about WMA files. iTunes can handle WAV though.